Character

Name: N/A "Saint Dane"

Age: 30

Height: 5' 10" Weight: 160

Eye Color: Blue Hair Color: Brown

Facial Hair: None


Build: Donut Patrol

(actor) Ethnicity: Caucasian

(actor) Nationality (optional): xxx

Accent: American (possibly East Coast)
(Saint Dane's voice?)


Acting
New/Fresh Actor: Yes|No

Personality: (Saint Dane)

Just an idea, I was wondering if maybe we should have the same actor as Saint Dane for him. I know that Press doesn't know immediately in the book, but I feel that for him to be able to stare that homeless man into committing suicide, he would need to be able to pull off the same icy look. And for a character that is just briefly in one scene, I'm not sure we can find a cheep actor that is good enough to do that.

We could cut the homeless guy all together, but I personally thought it was a very powerful idea about what Saint Dane can do to a person's mind. Plus it establishes the train. We may not need to even show the train, but at least in my draft of the first few scenes, it plays a rather large role.

It establishes his power very well.
I don't think it should be Saint Dane necessarily. Just a good scummy bad-cop type of actor. And then the transformation from that into SD will be that much more shocking and eerie.

On the other hand, some people imagined Mallos as being very similar to Saint Dane, but with darker hair and some makeup to change his general features. Might have the same actor for him.
(In the case of using Jason Isaacs, it would be the difference between his character from The Patriot and the Lucius Malfoy type. Some armour and facial hair could mask his identity a good portion too.)

I don't think it should be in Saint Dane's voice.

Yeah, I don't think it should be Saint Dane in any way really. Very few of his disguises should resemble him. The one I think might still work is Mallos.

The only thing that should show he's Saint Dane,are the eyes.Icy blue eyes.

And maybe not even at first. In the books the eyes always flash slightly and give him away at a specific time.

Yeah,I figure that could work because I don't want Max Rose's mistress to be too obvious for viewers that haven't read the books.I want it to be a surprise.

Exactly. The eyes never look like Saint Dane's, because his are unique. And at some point, he'll look over and the eyes will shift slightly, flashing blue.

Like in X-Men. Mystique takes on the form of the senator.
IMG
But in a news clip, the eyes briefly turn yellow, showing that it's Mystique.

Same idea.

Good example.I also think the flashing thing would be really cool.

Yeah, just a shimmer of color running through the irises. Adding it digitally to the character, which will make it seem even more haunting.

I want it to send chills down my spine.It's got to be good shine,not just a corny glint.I'm not talking TOO bright though.

Right. We'll have to start a topic on Saint Dane effects.

EDIT: http://z4.invisionfree.com/PendragonMovie/...=140&st=0&#last

There we go.

That would be cool.

Aside from the cop (which was just a mild suggestion, there are plenty of good actors from independent film-making that could do it).

Anyway, Mallos I think should be the same actor as Saint Dane, a little editing, but not a lot. But there is at least one other that I think should be the same actor, Zy Roder, the pirate from Cloral. He's described as having long blonde hair, but the same blue eyes, which let Bobby instantly know that he was Saint Dane. He went so far as to say "Welcome to Cloral Pendragon," over that loud microphone.

The last one would be the gangster on Third Earth in Winn Farrow's gang. Saint Dane was pretending to be one. He doesn't have to look like him, but he definitely has to sound like him. (It said he did in the book.) All three of these people I think should look and/or sound like Saint Dane for this reason:

The way these disguises of Saint Dane's effected me in the book. They were so obvious. SOOOO obvious. And they were obvious for a very good reason: because he had another disguise on the territory that he DIDN'T wand Bobby to know about. E.g. the merchant from the first book, the scientist in the second book who helped create the poison, and Max Rose's girlfriend. It made it that much more shocking when you learn that they are Saint Dane as well. By the fourth book Bobby has gotten extremely paranoid (as has everyone else) so Saint Dane stops trying that trick. But he does it to throw suspicion off of everyone else.

Do you understand my point? There are times when Saint Dane goes out of his way to make sure Bobby recognizes him, and times when he hides it as if his life depended on it. And oddly enough, he is able to use them both to manipulate Bobby.

I just think that when Saint Dane chooses to be obvious, he should be extremely, blatantly obvious. No offense, but when you make a story, you have to be make sure that the dumbest person who reads it will understand. (Personally I think that the eyes flashing with Mystique was a little too much. And I just watched it a day or two ago.)

Just to throw it into the mix. The one time Saint Dane appears on Veelox (except when he is leaving at the beginning of the book) is at the end when he says something to the effect of "You lose Pendragon." So maybe then it should be the same actor too. Maybe just the voice though.

(btw, the cop shouldn't be, you made a very good case against it saying that Saint Dane's first transformation needs to be dramatic and shocking.)

Agreed.
And it was Dr. Kree Sever on Veelox I believe, who was a woman. An elderly woman, who will then look down at Bobby and the voice will suddenly be his deep voice. "You lose Pendragon."
Ooh, I get chills just picturing that.

EDIT: Found the quote.

I think it should be the actress's voice, but at the bold part there, a deep layer of Saint Dane slips in over it.


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I agree with your other choices too. I think Zy Roder will need to be a slim, almost jester type of pirate. Or at least I imagined him as slim and in a wet suit or something. We'll sort that out in his cast topic.

Man I loved that book!Especially that part.I was so surprised when I learned Saint Dane won that territory,I want the audience in the movie theatres to be just as surprised as I-and we-were.

Ahhh, ok, I didn't know who it was exactly. I agree with when you said it should change to Saint Dane's voice.

For the record, for what you mentioned about Zy Roder. I invisioned people on cloral wearing wet suits, and then one or two things on top, like shoes, a jacket, and perhaps pants. They wouldn't really wear shirts over it I wouldn't think. The idea is that they are still in rather normal looking cloths or perhaps a uniform. But anything over the wet suit could be easily removed should the situation demand swimming.

Like.. an open Hawaiian shirt style thing. But maybe trenchcoat length. o.o
That would be weird.

Additional things. Maybe their wetsuits have additional webbing or something to make them more hydrodynamic? (Like Abe in Hellboy. The webbing between his underarm and midriff.)

Lots of creative liberties. Have to decide how the wardrobe of a planet evolves when the entire culture is based on the ocean.

EDIT: Let's keep this to the Subway officer now. We'll start a Cloral topic in the Costume section.

Ok, my bad ^^;

I thought they said in the book that the cop was African American because I thought I'd read Bobby say that he had dark skin.

Just checked. It doesn't say anything about his skin. Probably white though, otherwise D.J. would have added that he was black to make the shapeshifting have more of an effect.

Besides, white cops are more villainous. :P

Yeah, he'd be white, we live in a time (while we have progressed very far) we still assume that someone is white unless someone says otherwise.

Well, and in a time where we've experienced enough prejudice to know that white cops are more suspicious than others. Meaning more likely to abuse their power etc. So which one gives you a greater feeling of 'something's not right'?

But either way, I picture him as the standard 'donut patrol' porker, though not necessarily overweight. Just smug and authoritative.

I really like the things being said here. But let me put in my thoughts.

I really think that whoever is playing Saint Dane should really play the characters that Bobby figures out from first seeing that it is Saint Dane. Like he knows right away that Mallos is Saint Dane. Also Ky Roder from Cloral and whoever else Bobby figures out right away that it is Saint Dane. The actor would of course go through a transformation in make-up and what not, maybe change his voice a little, but the eyes, those creepy creepy eyes, should remain the same.

I also loved the thing between Dr. Kree Sever from Veelox changing into Saint Dane's voice, because that would add that layer of creepiness that would be amazing!

It's possible, but the only ones I really agree on for that idea are Mallos and Zy Roder. Everyone else really needs to be another actor.

I agree because having him play all of the parts would be truly confusing and not smart at all. I mean he has to be a fourteen year old Andy Mitchell (Saint Dane is too old in his regular figure). Also a 3 foot tall Figgis (I guess he's the right age but most definetley not the right height).

Another reason I feel as though it would be a horrible idea is for the fact that the whole effect of the shapeshifting villain would be ruined. People that haven't read the books would go to the movies (movies after the first one once they know what SD looks like) and say right away "That's Saint Dane, no surprise there". People that HAVE read the books won't get the kind of chills or feel of the mystery and magic that makes Saint Dane an amazing villain that manipulates his victims (I guess that counts for both people that have and haven't read the books though).

Yeah, I mean Mallos and Zy Roder are kinda obvious and he knows it's Saint Dane from the first time they meet. So a little dress-up is all you'd need for those two. But there aren't any other characters that should be played by Dane's actor.

hunh... if you don't mind me pointing this out, you guys haven't done much while I've been away. I still haven't solved my computer problems, but I decided to get on anyway.


I think I should re-state what I said earlier about the thug in Win Farrow's gang who is Saint Dane. He should also be the same actor, because he fulfills the same role, to make Bobby think he's one person and no one else. And after some thinking, I noticed that in books 5 and 7 there are similar characters.

In five there is a Klee that reveals he is Saint Dane, so you never suspect that Yorn is Saint Dane as well. Obviously it wouldn't look like Saint Dane, but the Klee has the same voice and if we are doing motion capture for them (like they did for Davy Jones and his crew in POTC) perhaps that actor could be the person in the suit who drives the klee's motion.

In 7, he is somewhere, I think he is in the Blok building, where the board of directors or whoever is. Which made it a surprise that Saint Dane was also Challenger Green. I don't remember the guy in 7 much, so I won't say whether or not it should be the same actor.

RYSTAR said something to the effect that having the same actor playing a number of Saint Dane's roles will ruin his transforming. But honestly, he doesn't transform all that much (not in front of Bobby, Mark or Courtney I mean.) And as I said, there are characters who Saint Dane reveals to Bobby that it's him, and characters that he doesn't (who he usually reveals in one of the last scenes).

There are characters who Saint Dane wants you to know are him, and characters that he doesn't. The shock effect I got from that was the same as Bobby's: "Holy ****! That was Saint Dane this whole time?! I thought he was this guy over there! SO HE WAS BOTH!?! I had no idea!"

That is why I think that the ones he reveals to be him should be obvious. PAINFULLY obvious. While the others give no hint, no clue that it is Saint Dane until the very last moment.


And I think I should amend something I said earlier. I know that you said that the Cloral outfits should be discussed elsewhere, but elsewhere what I'm about to say would have no context. Looking back, I think that the wet suits should have shoes sort of built into them. Shoes are hard to take on and off. So are pants and shirts, so they wouldn't wear either of those over the suits.

But I still think there should be jackets that, as I said earlier, would maybe show what someone's job is, like uniforms. And it is very important that these jackets DO NOT BUTTON IN THE FRONT. They need to be open so they can be easily discarded because clothes like that are not good to swim in, but they are good to walk in.

As for what you said about webbing. The whole point of webbing is so that it is not hydrodynamic, so that it can sweep water backwards (and thus themselves forward). If a paddle was hydrodynamic, it would just glide through the water and the boat would sit still.

That being said, no I do not think there should be webbing because it would interfere with normal activities on a habitat. Say what you like about the people of Cloral being people of water, but the human race is a land-based race. It wasn't built to be in the water for long periods of time.

I would bet you anything (if I was the type of person who made bets) that the average person on Cloral spends more time on a habitat than in the water. The whole point of their costumes is that they work for BOTH water AND land. We on earth wear clothing that is only good for being on land, but Cloral is not our antithesis, but a hybrid of land and sea culture.


I believe I have said enough about all of this.

Even if he doesn't transform all that much, it would still be an amazing thing to see at the movie theatres. In fact, seeing as it wouldn't be shown that much it would make it that much cooler.

And there are a lot of great transformations we see. Like when SD jumped out the window of Max Rose's room on First Earth in NW. In mid-air he morphed into a black crow and flew away in the distance. Also, I believe he transforms from a cop to his real form in MoD on Second Earth. Before the gun fight between him and Press Tilton. I also see that there are other reasons why it could be so surprising without him having to transform, and I agree with that, but it's still an essential to SD. I also see, after thinking it over, he does hide his identity more than I thought he did.

If he's a shapeshifter, there's literally no reason he should look like his true form when he's in disguise. If it's a shock to Bobby, it should be a shock to the audience.

In instances where he reveals himself early, it's usually by saying "Hello, Pendragon" or shooting him the icy blue eyes. No reason to look like actual Saint Dane.